bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 12, 2013 16:29:30 GMT -5
I think we should.
We could start out with Layton's first day at college.
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Post by kirby163 on Mar 12, 2013 23:43:59 GMT -5
Alrighty then. We should decide on some details.
Is he living on campus, in an apartment, or with his parents?
What classes does he take?
Does he start looking for puzzles on purpose? or does he just keep finding himself thinking "That reminds me of a puzzle"?
Why does he shave the afro and wear a red hat? Or does he still have the afro on his first day?
...Does anyone have a map of Gressenheller University? That would be a good starting point.
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bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 13, 2013 7:06:17 GMT -5
I think he should have the Afro oh his first day, but then He shaves it for some reason. I also like the idea of finding himself being reminded of puzzles everywhere he goes.
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Post by veestormcourage on Mar 13, 2013 17:29:13 GMT -5
So a while back I had talked to a few people over the main chat and then copied the log into a new document to discuss later.
I haven't actually played all the games, so I don't know how this would slide into actual canon, but I'm going to relay the gist of what came out of the conversation, with a few tweaks. Feel free to use all of this or none of it, especially since I realize it may not slide into canon, and has nothing to do with the college idea.
There has been a series of instances recently in which graves have been desecrated, and the individuals who had occupied these graves have been seen up and about again, to the confusion of the police and those related to the formerly deceased. Professor Layton is asked to aid in the investigation and is asked to speak to one of the newly-risen dead whom he had known personally, and he meets Lydia as he goes about his investigation, probably graveside. This would be their first encounter. At this time, Lydia is not disguised, but is presumed to be present with the proper authorization (a fact later to be thrown into doubt when no one actually knows who she properly is or why she was present at that time).
Shortly afterwards, the Necromancer places an ad in the newspaper, designating a place, time, and “victim” for a resurrection to take place, in the vein of a phantom thief. Unlike a phantom thief, when Warren appears in his mask, he is donned all in grey instead of gleaming white. Lydia, in red, similarly masked, appears to oppose him. Their “magic” clashes, but the resurrection goes on apace. The Necromancer escapes, the Cleric (what opposes a Necromancer in Dungeon and Dragons; incidentally, Necromancy is a school of Wizardry, but can be accessed by an evil-aligned cleric) on his heels, and both elude the professor’s party.
Warren leaves clues leading to the identities behind the masks, although only Lydia recognizes Warren, and Warren is unaware Lydia is alive. Essentially, everything points to the case of the mysterious deaths of the Sangrias, and Warren leads Professor Layton to his own perceived truth of the matter: that he himself, Warren Sangria, killed his parents and twin sister, “solving” the cold case but leaving Layton dissatisfied.
Having come this far, he is climatically and dramatically proven to be the Necromancer, the twins’ identities as the masked magicians is confirmed, Lydia becomes an ally, and Warren escapes. His necromancy is proven to be imperfect, the reanimated returning to death eventually, and his motive becomes plainly to perfect his art and resurrect his family (simple enough, and a universal theme to an extent).
Over the course of the second installment, the gaps from the first OVA begin to get filled in: how Lydia became a Cleric (anime Catholicism time! Church-run orphanage, friendly parish priest to serve as possible Big Bad, all leads to Lydia’s understanding of Clerical magic); how Warren turned to the streets, and made big (using “magic” to gain fortune? Tutor another possible Big Bad? Self-taught=Warren’s a genius?). This whole episode would be a big game of cat-and-mouse as Warren is brought to justice for patricide, ending with his arrest. His hiding places and frauds are exposed, but the trick behind his magic is yet to have been revealed. Reuniting with Lydia and finding her against him broke him just enough to get him cuffed. With Warren safely arrested, the case is thought to be closed, but Layton cryptically declares that nothing is quite finished yet.
In the finale, Warren escapes from prison, desperate to give his magic one last try. Layton thinks to intercept him at the familial grave, but the corpses have already been moved. Layton then deduces where Warren must have gone. First contact goes to Lydia, at site of the resurrection spell this time. She explains that it won’t work, and that Warren’s magic is not real. Layton explains the whys and wherefores, solving the puzzle of the necromancy. He then logically directs Warren to the identity of the Big Bad (Lydia? Priest [or nun, make it so Lydia is really unsure of how to handle guys and acts super tsun to compensate]? Mentor?), and Warren realizes the Big Bad was the real force behind the murders. Warren marches out to deal with things his own way.
IF Big Bad = Lydia, THEN: Lydia killed her parents [somehow] and Warren did hurt her in revenge, but somehow the memories got twisted with his own despair. Lydia was only one to live long enough to receive Last Rites, at which time she was granted by Priest (nun?-->makes less sense in this context) a little more time to live. But even that “spell” was imperfect, so she did manipulate her twin to try to find a more perfect spell. With both of them researching, perhaps she could find a way to at least extend her time, if not bring their parents back. But then Warren has a moment of enlightenment as he clings to her, and she too states that too long fighting death makes it hard to remember what it means to live. She dies again shortly thereafter. Warren takes to red (dyed hair? Clothes?), choosing to now fully live his life.
IF Big Bad = Priest, THEN: the parents had been engaged in something dirty and underhanded that impacted the orphans, and Lydia had been an unfortunate casualty. Intent had not been to frame Warren, but context led Warren to believe himself culpable. Priest took pity on Lydia, extends her life. He had been researching all this “magic” to try to bring back the orphans’ parents, those whose parents were good and deserved to live, but was also responsible for the murder of many parents whom he deemed evil. He had taken the role of God and condemned himself for it (noble god-complex villain; color theme of black-and-white: good and evil are clear, and he is aware he has crossed the line). Warren goes to kill the priest, Layton foils his attempt, and Lydia then calms him down, explaining that she isn’t resentful and was glad to have enough time to meet him again. She supports him. Layton goes in for the arrest. Priest tries to off himself out of guilt, as a penance (suicide = straight to hell in traditional Catholic thought, so it would be extremely symbolic of giving himself up to his “just” reward) but Luke (please tell me Luke is still a factor in the games, I wouldn’t know) has gathered the young’uns, who get the priest to stop. The priest is arrested. Lydia’s time eventually passes. Warren takes to red, choosing to now fully live his life.
IF Big Bad = Tutor, THEN: Tutor had known all along Warren was the greater genius and everything was a plan to manipulate Warren into trying to perfect the resurrection technique. His sister was deemed unnecessary except perhaps as further motivation, but she survived and was taken in by the church. Her Clerical magic is her own genius and research, showing just how much she was underestimated and how similar the twins are, despite their seeming differences. Lydia is able to restrain Warren from killing his tutor, and there’s a massive confrontation in which it’s everyone versus the Big Bad, and it ends with the tutor down, the massive flaw in the “necromancy” stated clearly, and philosophically, and Warren tries adding just a little red to his design (changing the silk ribbon on his hat, maybe? Something minor) as he adapts to his happier state of affairs. Or the same ideas about Lydia’s limited time could be employed, that the whole part about her being resurrected by the church is still valid, time runs out, and so on.
Parts of this were inspired heavily by the twins’ color schemes, red being the colors of blood, passion, and fire: life; and grey being something neither white nor black, good nor evil, the shade of despair.
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Post by kirby163 on Mar 13, 2013 20:27:49 GMT -5
Oh dear...
Er... What you seem to have there is a completely independent story, mostly driven by OC's, using magic that doesn't quite fit with established canon.
Please remember that Professor Layton is the main character, and should have an important role in the story. At least until we finish a season or two.
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bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 13, 2013 21:14:26 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. I still have no idea who this Warren character is anyway.Lydia? Necromaner? I've never heard of any of these before.
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Post by veestormcourage on Mar 13, 2013 22:07:15 GMT -5
Okay, first, about the OCs:
Warren and Miki Sangria are OCs introduced on the concept art page. It's been presented to me that they were intended for the series, which many people over in the main Skype chat thought should be a 3-part OVA. I was not aware that not everyone was on the same page. My understanding of the situation was that this was in fact the intended route of the story: fake Necromancy using these two as a catalyst. I must point out that there are new characters introduced in basically every story, and see little reason for our project to be the exception, even with my own fear of OCs in fanfiction.
The idea is that the magic is in fact fake. Nor is this all that far-fetched if you recall that the entire plot of the Mysterious Village revolved around automatons (!).
The first three games, as I understand it, centered around new adventures each time that only brushed the surface of Layton's past. Layton is discovering someone else's story entirely and taking up a role in solving the related mysteries. Later, in the prequel games, that changes as his own past becomes the mystery to solve. That is, again, only my understanding, being only partway through.
Thus, I would like to use the facts I have at hand to argue that making a completely original story set in the Layton universe and drawing upon some of the favorite worm-food characters in the series to get the fans emotionally involved seems a plausible idea. Notice that Warren needs prep time to stage his "magic." Not to mention this is only a rough outline stating possible routes. I have not solved all the mechanics. And surely Layton knows enough dead people that we could have plausible temptation to "sin" with the idea of bringing the dead to life.
As for the story being independent: in the main chat on Skype several people had proposed that we should instead work on a 3-part OVA instead of a 24-episode series. Much shorter, much tighter storyline, less fluff in the writing, and much more control over the number of characters -- a far more focused effort. This works with that assumption.
The objections were: 1) Independent storyline 2) OCs 3) Magic is not real Hopefully I have addressed those three concerns. Of course, I am by no means "sold" on this storyline; on the other hand, I do think it is the most developed proposal thus far, having a beginning, middle action, conclusion, villain, and motive for the most part. I was trusting those of you who know Layton best to fill in the blanks. This was not a complete story as written, but a bunch of ideas strung together and then put into a more cohesive narrative form.
To list my own objections to the story: 1) It feels too dark compared to my own experience with the series, all things considered 2) Fake necromancy would be very hard to come up with a mechanism for that could fool even its practitioners. 3) OCs -- but then, all main series characters are very developed, making it hard to write up original story content about them without conflicting with canon 4) I have no clue who I can use how for existing characters, since I'm really only an animator familiar with Layton, not a series buff
Again, these were only ideas. I can always make up another story. I'm not offended if the story is rejected. But there does need to be solid basis for every decision. In this instance, I provided my own grounds for rejection. If this story is to be pushed forward, I would need the team to help fix the problems.
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bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 13, 2013 22:12:56 GMT -5
It would appear we have similar complaints to the story. I agree that it is too dark. The villians or mysteries usually take up a lighter setting. I do some what like the idea of the dead being raised. It could be the mystery he must solve.
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Post by kirby163 on Mar 13, 2013 23:12:34 GMT -5
Wait, Warren is a villain? Oh... Huh.
We could make this work, but I'm still worried about Warren overshadowing the other characters, if only because I know how excited people get with their OC's. I will still be extremely wary, as Warren seems to be wandering into wish-fulfillment territory, and wish-fulfillment is but one step away from Gary Stu.
Be careful please.
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bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 13, 2013 23:21:32 GMT -5
Oh, I assumed he was a villain. Just because he can do all that magic stuff.
We also seemed to have gone astray from the original conversation. So, Layton is in college and Clark is his companion, so to say. I'm thinking we should think of a way these two could meet.
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Post by kirby163 on Mar 14, 2013 0:36:32 GMT -5
Yes.
The most obvious way would simply be sitting next to each other in class. Or sharing a dorm (if they do both live in a dorm). Clark is an archaeologist, so the class theory isn't too far fetched.
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bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 14, 2013 19:45:41 GMT -5
Yes, I like the class idea. So, it's an archeology class. Taught by Schrader? (Cameo!) Hershel is deeply immersed in the lesson, and Clark comes crashing through the doors late and almost dropping all of his books?
Just ideas. Feel free to tweak them
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Post by kirby163 on Mar 14, 2013 21:13:47 GMT -5
I almost think Hershel would be in late, with how disorganized he is.
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bumbumbummuffins
New Member
Hi. I can write. I can play clarinet and I don't know if I can sing, but I don't think so.
Posts: 35
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Post by bumbumbummuffins on Mar 14, 2013 21:30:00 GMT -5
Yes, I was thinking about that. Okay, so we switch roles. Layton is late. Clark is immersed in the lesson.
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cloverspade
New Member
Living in another world somewhere high in the clouds.
Posts: 23
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Post by cloverspade on Mar 14, 2013 21:48:11 GMT -5
How about Layton is late, and just as he gets settled in, Clark crashes in with his textbooks falling out of his arms even LATER? The professor teaching the lesson then tells Clark to go sit next to Layton and makes a joke about how the two tardy boys might get along. Also, I'm working on a long post composed of my ideas that I hope to post tommorow. That's why I haven't really been active in the forum lately.
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